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General Mechanical

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Unable to converge on a solution

    • fischr
      Subscriber

      Hello,


      i want to import a temperature load to a static structural simulation in Workbench R19. But the solver engine is unable to converge on a solution. I used a command block to insert HSFLD242 Elements to model a fluid that is fully enclosed by solids.



      The cavity is filled with HSFLD242 elements as you can see in the picture below:




      does anyone have any idea why it is not converging? Do i need to define a  thermal conductance for the material properties of my fluid ?

    • peteroznewman
      Subscriber

      There is useful information in the solve.out file in the solution folder. What is the error listed in that file? It looks like it nearly solved completely. Without seeing the information, it might help to have smaller elements.

    • fischr
      Subscriber

      Thanks for your reply. I tried a finer mesh, but it is still not converging and  not even showing the heat convergence data.


      The error messages are:


      /COM,ANSYS RELEASE Release 19.0      BUILD 19.0      UP20171214       11:54:10

       *** WARNING ***                         CP =       1.391   TIME= 11:54:12
       Material property ALPX of material 1 is evaluated at a temperature of  
       0, which is below the supplied temperature range.  Temperature range   
       checking terminates.                                                   

       *** WARNING ***                         CP =       1.625   TIME= 11:54:12
       Element shape checking is currently inactive.  Issue SHPP,ON or        
       SHPP,WARN to reactivate, if desired.                                   

       *** WARNING ***                         CP =       5.391   TIME= 11:54:15
       Pivoting has been activated for the Distributed Sparse Matrix Solver . 
       The memory required may greatly exceed the predicted amount.  In that  
       event, use the DSPOPTION command to change the memory mode and/or      
       memory size used by the Distributed Sparse Matrix Solver.              

       *** WARNING ***                         CP =      16.516   TIME= 11:54:26
       There is not enough memory for the Distributed Sparse Matrix Solver to 
       proceed in the in-core memory mode.  The Distributed Sparse Matrix     
       Solver will now restart using the out-of-core memory mode.             

       *** WARNING ***                         CP =      16.797   TIME= 11:54:27
       The Distributed Sparse Matrix Solver is currently running in the       
       out-of-core memory mode.  This memory mode may provide significantly   
       worse performance compared to the in-core memory mode, depending on    
       the amount of available system memory and I/O speed.  Please monitor   
       the solver performance to ensure that the large amount of I/O to the   
       solver files does not create a bottleneck for performance.             

       *** WARNING ***                         CP =      16.797   TIME= 11:54:27
       Pivoting has been activated for the Distributed Sparse Matrix Solver . 
       The memory required may greatly exceed the predicted amount.  In that  
       event, use the DSPOPTION command to change the memory mode and/or      
       memory size used by the Distributed Sparse Matrix Solver.              

       *** ERROR ***                           CP =      36.172   TIME= 11:54:46
       There is not enough memory for the Distributed Sparse Matrix Solver to 
       proceed.  This is likely due to the use of pivoting while factoring    
       the matrix.  Please increase the virtual memory on your system and/or  
       increase the work space memory and rerun the solver.  Alternatively,   
       using the DSPOPTION command to switch to a different memory mode       
       and/or to specify additional memory for the solver may also help.  The 
       memory currently allocated for the Distributed Sparse Matrix Solver    
       solver = 134 MB.   

       

    • fischr
      Subscriber

      with a course mesh i get these error messages:


      /COM,ANSYS RELEASE Release 19.0      BUILD 19.0      UP20171214       12:03:18

      *** WARNING *** CP = 0.297 TIME= 12:03:19
      Material property ALPX of material 1 is evaluated at a temperature of
      0, which is below the supplied temperature range. Temperature range
      checking terminates.

      *** WARNING *** CP = 0.359 TIME= 12:03:19
      Element shape checking is currently inactive. Issue SHPP,ON or
      SHPP,WARN to reactivate, if desired.

      *** WARNING *** CP = 0.500 TIME= 12:03:19
      Pivoting has been activated for the Distributed Sparse Matrix Solver .
      The memory required may greatly exceed the predicted amount. In that
      event, use the DSPOPTION command to change the memory mode and/or
      memory size used by the Distributed Sparse Matrix Solver.

      *** WARNING *** CP = 0.984 TIME= 12:03:19
      Material property KXX of material 1 of element 172 is evaluated at a
      temperature of 546.910916, which is above the supplied temperature
      range. Temperature range checking terminates.

      *** WARNING *** CP = 2.266 TIME= 12:03:20
      Pivoting has been activated for the Distributed Sparse Matrix Solver .
      The memory required may greatly exceed the predicted amount. In that
      event, use the DSPOPTION command to change the memory mode and/or
      memory size used by the Distributed Sparse Matrix Solver.

      *** WARNING *** CP = 3.797 TIME= 12:03:22
      Pivoting has been activated for the Distributed Sparse Matrix Solver .
      The memory required may greatly exceed the predicted amount. In that
      event, use the DSPOPTION command to change the memory mode and/or
      memory size used by the Distributed Sparse Matrix Solver.

      *** WARNING *** CP = 5.266 TIME= 12:03:23
      Pivoting has been activated for the Distributed Sparse Matrix Solver .
      The memory required may greatly exceed the predicted amount. In that
      event, use the DSPOPTION command to change the memory mode and/or
      memory size used by the Distributed Sparse Matrix Solver.

      *** WARNING *** CP = 11.250 TIME= 12:030
      Solution not converged at time 0.1 (load step 1 substep 1).
      Run continued at user request.

      *** WARNING *** CP = 17.609 TIME= 12:036
      Solution not converged at time 0.2 (load step 1 substep 2).
      Run continued at user request.

      *** WARNING *** CP = 23.797 TIME= 12:03:43
      Solution not converged at time 0.3 (load step 1 substep 3).
      Run continued at user request.

      *** WARNING *** CP = 30.141 TIME= 12:03:49
      Solution not converged at time 0.4 (load step 1 substep 4).
      Run continued at user request.

      *** WARNING *** CP = 36.250 TIME= 12:03:56
      Solution not converged at time 0.5 (load step 1 substep 5).
      Run continued at user request.

      *** WARNING *** CP = 42.516 TIME= 12:04:02
      Solution not converged at time 0.6 (load step 1 substep 6).
      Run continued at user request.

      *** WARNING *** CP = 48.547 TIME= 12:04:08
      Solution not converged at time 0.7 (load step 1 substep 7).
      Run continued at user request.

      *** WARNING *** CP = 54.844 TIME= 12:04:15
      Solution not converged at time 0.8 (load step 1 substep 8).
      Run continued at user request.

      *** WARNING *** CP = 61.031 TIME= 12:04:21
      Solution not converged at time 0.9 (load step 1 substep 9).
      Run continued at user request.

      *** WARNING *** CP = 67.109 TIME= 12:04:28
      Solution not converged at time 1 (load step 1 substep 10).
      Run continued at user request.

      Without using HSFLD242 elements the solution is converging.

    • fischr
      Subscriber

      and if i set solver pivot checking on programm controlled i get these error messages:


      /COM,ANSYS RELEASE Release 19.0      BUILD 19.0      UP20171214       12:09:40

       *** WARNING ***                         CP =       0.297   TIME= 12:09:41
       Material property ALPX of material 1 is evaluated at a temperature of  
       0, which is below the supplied temperature range.  Temperature range   
       checking terminates.                                                   

       *** WARNING ***                         CP =       0.359   TIME= 12:09:41
       Element shape checking is currently inactive.  Issue SHPP,ON or        
       SHPP,WARN to reactivate, if desired.                                   

       *** WARNING ***                         CP =       0.516   TIME= 12:09:41
       Pivoting has been activated for the Distributed Sparse Matrix Solver . 
       The memory required may greatly exceed the predicted amount.  In that  
       event, use the DSPOPTION command to change the memory mode and/or      
       memory size used by the Distributed Sparse Matrix Solver.              

       *** ERROR ***                           CP =       0.969   TIME= 12:09:41
       There are 543 small equation solver pivot terms (e.g., at the UY degree
       of freedom of node 494).  Please check for an insufficiently           
       constrained model.
    • fischr
      Subscriber

      This is node 494:


    • peteroznewman
      Subscriber

      I read the ANSYS help on the assumptions and restrictions on the HSFLD242 element and find that the fluid volume must have a uniform temperature without any gradients.  That doesn't seem to be consistent with a Transient Thermal model where temperature gradients are present.


      Try to use a CPT217 element which is capable of modeling coupled physics phenomena such as structural-pore-fluid-diffusion-thermal analysis and structural implicit gradient regularization using a nonlocal field. The element has a quadratic displacement, and linear pore-pressure and temperature behavior. With KEYOPT(11)=1, you specify you want a Structural-Thermal coupled field analysis.


      Because it is a coupled-field analysis, you provide both thermal BCs and structural BCs and issue an ANTYPE,SOIL command and use the spares direct solver. 

    • fischr
      Subscriber

      Okay thank you for your answer! I will try using CPT217 Elements for the Fluid. I suppose I have to model the body of the fluid and mesh the fluidbody with CPT217? Then I have to model the contact between solid and fluid as well, is that right?

    • peteroznewman
      Subscriber

      If I had used DesignModeler or SpaceClaim to prepare this geometry, I would have used Shared Topology so that nodes on the spherical surface were shared by the fluid elements on one body and the solid elements on the other body.  In that case, I don't need any contact.

    • fischr
      Subscriber

      Could you please explain how to implement CPT217 elements in ansys workbench?


      I inserted a command snippet under the individual part (fluid) in Geometry tree:


      ET,matid, CPT217
      keyopt,matid,11,1


      But this did not change the element type from SOLID187 to CPT217

    • peteroznewman
      Subscriber

      Check the Solution Output to verify that SOLID187 elements were used in the mesh. Perhaps the mesh used linear elements?  You can set the mesh to use quadratic elements.

    • fischr
      Subscriber

      i set the mesh to use quadratic elements and it is meshing with SOLID87. With the command snippet i get the error message:


       *** ERROR ***                           CP =       0.328   TIME=
      14:596
       An element referred to as 271 is a "null" or undefined element.
    • fischr
      Subscriber

      it is still not working.



      • i used shared topology

      • inserted a command snippet under the body of the fluid with:


      • et,2,217

        keyopt,2,11,1

        keyopt,2,12,1


      • set the solver type to: direct

      • made a command snippet in solu:


      • antype,soil


      • used Full-Newton-Raphson-method, because i had error message:

        The THOPT,QUASI option is valid only for the TEMP degree of freedom




      it is still not finishing the solution :



      in the error file i have only warning:


      /COM,ANSYS RELEASE Release 19.0      BUILD 19.0      UP20171214       170:18

      *** WARNING *** CP = 0.297 TIME= 170:19
      Material property ALPX of material 2 is evaluated at a temperature of
      0, which is below the supplied temperature range. Temperature range
      checking terminates.

      *** WARNING *** CP = 0.328 TIME= 170:19
      Element shape checking is currently inactive. Issue SHPP,ON or
      SHPP,WARN to reactivate, if desired.

      *** WARNING *** CP = 0.953 TIME= 170:19
      Material property EX of material 2 of element 812 is evaluated at a
      temperature of 473.991869, which is above the supplied temperature
      range. Temperature range checking terminates.

      *** WARNING *** CP = 1.109 TIME= 170:19
      A reference fluid flow value times the tolerance is used by the
      Newton-Raphson method for checking convergence. The calculated
      reference FL FLOW CONVERGENCE VALUE= 0 is less than a threshold. This
      threshold defaults to 1.0e-6 or is specified as MINREF on the CNVTOL
      command. Check results carefully.

      any suggestions on what to do?

    • peteroznewman
      Subscriber

      You are getting 200 converged increments. Why do you say it is not working?


      What do the results look like during these converged increments?


      You are only showing warnings, not errors.

    • fischr
      Subscriber

      i can't plot any results, i have a read lightning bolt symbol :



      this are the last steps from the solver output:


           FORCE CONVERGENCE VALUE  =  0.2116E-05  CRITERION=  0.5312E-04
           FL
      FLOW CONVERGENCE VALUE=   0.000      CRITERION=  0.5312E-08
           HT FLOW
      CONVERGENCE VALUE=  0.5705E-11  CRITERION=  0.1000E-05
           DISP CONVERGENCE
      VALUE   =  0.6118E-09  CRITERION=  0.2784E-05 <<< CONVERGED
         
      EQUIL ITER   1 COMPLETED.  NEW TRIANG MATRIX.  MAX DOF INC= -0.2388E-05
          
      FORCE CONVERGENCE VALUE  =  0.1900E-11  CRITERION=  0.1062E-03 <<<
      CONVERGED
           FL FLOW CONVERGENCE VALUE=  0.4197E-24  CRITERION=  0.5312E-08
      <<< CONVERGED
           HT FLOW CONVERGENCE VALUE=  0.7400E-13 
      CRITERION=  0.1000E-05 <<< CONVERGED
          >>> SOLUTION
      CONVERGED AFTER EQUILIBRIUM ITERATION   1
       *** LOAD STEP     1   SUBSTEP  
      193  COMPLETED.    CUM ITER =    195
       *** TIME =  0.970000         TIME INC
      =  0.500000E-02
       *** RESPONSE EIGENVALUE =  6.590       OSCILLATION LIMIT =
      0.3295E-01
       *** RESPONSE FREQ = 0.3964E+05   PERIOD=  0.2522E-04  PTS/CYC =
      0.50E-02
       *** AUTO STEP TIME:  NEXT TIME INC = 0.50000E-02 
      UNCHANGED

           FORCE CONVERGENCE VALUE  =  0.2105E-05  CRITERION= 
      0.5312E-04
           FL FLOW CONVERGENCE VALUE=   0.000      CRITERION= 
      0.5312E-08
           HT FLOW CONVERGENCE VALUE=  0.5705E-11  CRITERION= 
      0.1000E-05
           DISP CONVERGENCE VALUE   =  0.5800E-09  CRITERION= 
      0.2784E-05 <<< CONVERGED
          EQUIL ITER   1 COMPLETED.  NEW TRIANG
      MATRIX.  MAX DOF INC=  0.2375E-05
           FORCE CONVERGENCE VALUE  = 
      0.1842E-11  CRITERION=  0.1062E-03 <<< CONVERGED
           FL FLOW
      CONVERGENCE VALUE=  0.4489E-24  CRITERION=  0.5312E-08 <<<
      CONVERGED
           HT FLOW CONVERGENCE VALUE=  0.7400E-13  CRITERION=  0.1000E-05
      <<< CONVERGED
          >>> SOLUTION CONVERGED AFTER EQUILIBRIUM
      ITERATION   1
       *** LOAD STEP     1   SUBSTEP   194  COMPLETED.    CUM ITER
      =    196
       *** TIME =  0.975000         TIME INC =  0.500000E-02
       ***
      RESPONSE EIGENVALUE =  6.590       OSCILLATION LIMIT = 0.3295E-01
       ***
      RESPONSE FREQ = 0.3963E+05   PERIOD=  0.2524E-04  PTS/CYC = 0.50E-02
       ***
      AUTO STEP TIME:  NEXT TIME INC = 0.50000E-02  UNCHANGED

           FORCE
      CONVERGENCE VALUE  =  0.2095E-05  CRITERION=  0.5312E-04
           FL FLOW
      CONVERGENCE VALUE=   0.000      CRITERION=  0.5312E-08
           HT FLOW
      CONVERGENCE VALUE=  0.5705E-11  CRITERION=  0.1000E-05
           DISP CONVERGENCE
      VALUE   =  0.6052E-09  CRITERION=  0.2784E-05 <<< CONVERGED
         
      EQUIL ITER   1 COMPLETED.  NEW TRIANG MATRIX.  MAX DOF INC= -0.2362E-05
          
      FORCE CONVERGENCE VALUE  =  0.1878E-11  CRITERION=  0.1062E-03 <<<
      CONVERGED
           FL FLOW CONVERGENCE VALUE=  0.4287E-24  CRITERION=  0.5312E-08
      <<< CONVERGED
           HT FLOW CONVERGENCE VALUE=  0.7400E-13 
      CRITERION=  0.1000E-05 <<< CONVERGED
          >>> SOLUTION
      CONVERGED AFTER EQUILIBRIUM ITERATION   1
       *** LOAD STEP     1   SUBSTEP  
      195  COMPLETED.    CUM ITER =    197
       *** TIME =  0.980000         TIME INC
      =  0.500000E-02
       *** RESPONSE EIGENVALUE =  6.590       OSCILLATION LIMIT =
      0.3295E-01
       *** RESPONSE FREQ = 0.3961E+05   PERIOD=  0.2525E-04  PTS/CYC =
      0.50E-02
       *** AUTO STEP TIME:  NEXT TIME INC = 0.50000E-02 
      UNCHANGED

           FORCE CONVERGENCE VALUE  =  0.2085E-05  CRITERION= 
      0.5312E-04
           FL FLOW CONVERGENCE VALUE=   0.000      CRITERION= 
      0.5312E-08
           HT FLOW CONVERGENCE VALUE=  0.5705E-11  CRITERION= 
      0.1000E-05
           DISP CONVERGENCE VALUE   =  0.5737E-09  CRITERION= 
      0.2784E-05 <<< CONVERGED
          EQUIL ITER   1 COMPLETED.  NEW TRIANG
      MATRIX.  MAX DOF INC=  0.2349E-05
           FORCE CONVERGENCE VALUE  = 
      0.1918E-11  CRITERION=  0.1062E-03 <<< CONVERGED
           FL FLOW
      CONVERGENCE VALUE=  0.4431E-24  CRITERION=  0.5312E-08 <<<
      CONVERGED
           HT FLOW CONVERGENCE VALUE=  0.7400E-13  CRITERION=  0.1000E-05
      <<< CONVERGED
          >>> SOLUTION CONVERGED AFTER EQUILIBRIUM
      ITERATION   1
       *** LOAD STEP     1   SUBSTEP   196  COMPLETED.    CUM ITER
      =    198
       *** TIME =  0.985000         TIME INC =  0.500000E-02
       ***
      RESPONSE EIGENVALUE =  6.590       OSCILLATION LIMIT = 0.3295E-01
       ***
      RESPONSE FREQ = 0.3959E+05   PERIOD=  0.2526E-04  PTS/CYC = 0.51E-02
       ***
      AUTO STEP TIME:  NEXT TIME INC = 0.50000E-02  UNCHANGED

           FORCE
      CONVERGENCE VALUE  =  0.2075E-05  CRITERION=  0.5312E-04
           FL FLOW
      CONVERGENCE VALUE=   0.000      CRITERION=  0.5312E-08
           HT FLOW
      CONVERGENCE VALUE=  0.5705E-11  CRITERION=  0.1000E-05
           DISP CONVERGENCE
      VALUE   =  0.5984E-09  CRITERION=  0.2784E-05 <<< CONVERGED
         
      EQUIL ITER   1 COMPLETED.  NEW TRIANG MATRIX.  MAX DOF INC= -0.2336E-05
          
      FORCE CONVERGENCE VALUE  =  0.1928E-11  CRITERION=  0.1062E-03 <<<
      CONVERGED
           FL FLOW CONVERGENCE VALUE=  0.4688E-24  CRITERION=  0.5312E-08
      <<< CONVERGED
           HT FLOW CONVERGENCE VALUE=  0.7400E-13 
      CRITERION=  0.1000E-05 <<< CONVERGED
          >>> SOLUTION
      CONVERGED AFTER EQUILIBRIUM ITERATION   1
       *** LOAD STEP     1   SUBSTEP  
      197  COMPLETED.    CUM ITER =    199
       *** TIME =  0.990000         TIME INC
      =  0.500000E-02
       *** RESPONSE EIGENVALUE =  6.590       OSCILLATION LIMIT =
      0.3295E-01
       *** RESPONSE FREQ = 0.3957E+05   PERIOD=  0.2527E-04  PTS/CYC =
      0.51E-02
       *** AUTO STEP TIME:  NEXT TIME INC = 0.50000E-02 
      UNCHANGED

           FORCE CONVERGENCE VALUE  =  0.2065E-05  CRITERION= 
      0.5312E-04
           FL FLOW CONVERGENCE VALUE=   0.000      CRITERION= 
      0.5312E-08
           HT FLOW CONVERGENCE VALUE=  0.5705E-11  CRITERION= 
      0.1000E-05
           DISP CONVERGENCE VALUE   =  0.5676E-09  CRITERION= 
      0.2784E-05 <<< CONVERGED
          EQUIL ITER   1 COMPLETED.  NEW TRIANG
      MATRIX.  MAX DOF INC=  0.2323E-05
           FORCE CONVERGENCE VALUE  = 
      0.1916E-11  CRITERION=  0.1062E-03 <<< CONVERGED
           FL FLOW
      CONVERGENCE VALUE=  0.5016E-24  CRITERION=  0.5312E-08 <<<
      CONVERGED
           HT FLOW CONVERGENCE VALUE=  0.7400E-13  CRITERION=  0.1000E-05
      <<< CONVERGED
          >>> SOLUTION CONVERGED AFTER EQUILIBRIUM
      ITERATION   1
       *** LOAD STEP     1   SUBSTEP   198  COMPLETED.    CUM ITER
      =    200
       *** TIME =  0.995000         TIME INC =  0.500000E-02
       ***
      RESPONSE EIGENVALUE =  6.590       OSCILLATION LIMIT = 0.3295E-01
       ***
      RESPONSE FREQ = 0.3955E+05   PERIOD=  0.2529E-04  PTS/CYC = 0.51E-02
       ***
      AUTO STEP TIME:  NEXT TIME INC = 0.50000E-02  UNCHANGED

           FORCE
      CONVERGENCE VALUE  =  0.2054E-05  CRITERION=  0.5312E-04
           FL FLOW
      CONVERGENCE VALUE=   0.000      CRITERION=  0.5312E-08
           HT FLOW
      CONVERGENCE VALUE=  0.5705E-11  CRITERION=  0.1000E-05
           DISP CONVERGENCE
      VALUE   =  0.5913E-09  CRITERION=  0.2784E-05 <<< CONVERGED
         
      EQUIL ITER   1 COMPLETED.  NEW TRIANG MATRIX.  MAX DOF INC= -0.2310E-05
          
      FORCE CONVERGENCE VALUE  =  0.1778E-11  CRITERION=  0.1062E-03 <<<
      CONVERGED
           FL FLOW CONVERGENCE VALUE=  0.4592E-24  CRITERION=  0.5312E-08
      <<< CONVERGED
           HT FLOW CONVERGENCE VALUE=  0.7400E-13 
      CRITERION=  0.1000E-05 <<< CONVERGED
          >>> SOLUTION
      CONVERGED AFTER EQUILIBRIUM ITERATION   1
       *** LOAD STEP     1   SUBSTEP  
      199  COMPLETED.    CUM ITER =    201
       *** TIME =   1.00000         TIME INC
      =  0.500000E-02
       *** RESPONSE EIGENVALUE =  6.590       OSCILLATION LIMIT =
      0.3295E-01
       *** RESPONSE FREQ = 0.3953E+05   PERIOD=  0.2530E-04  PTS/CYC =
      0.51E-02


      also my global min of temperature is really low -2922°C , i set the ambient temperature to 200°C. i will try using a finer mesh.

    • peteroznewman
      Subscriber

      Delete the two result plots and insert a new Temperature result, then Evaluate All Results.  Even though it is a red lightening bolt, there are still 200 converged substeps. In the tabular data, you can pick any one of those 200 rows and Retrieve Results.  Now the display is showing a converged result. What does that look like?

    • fischr
      Subscriber

      and how can i describe the elasticity of my fluid in the material data? Is there a special setting for fluids? The elasticity of a fluid is described by the bulk modulus, but if i set the shear modulus to 0, my young modulus will also be 0 . Then it shows me a question mark in the definition of isotropic elasticity and i cannot perform a structural analysis.

    • peteroznewman
      Subscriber

      This is what I used for Water some time ago...


    • fischr
      Subscriber

      if i delete the result plots and insert a new temperature result, it is still not showing any tabular data. Under messages i get the error:


      An error occurred when the post processor attempted to load a specific result. Please review all messages.


      Current result file may not contain requested result data . Please clear the solution and solve again.


      under solution information there is also no data to display for the temperature change.

    • peteroznewman
      Subscriber

      You might have to open the model in Mechanical APDL to look at the results from a SOIL analysis type, I don't know. You might want to open a new Discussion to ask the specific question about obtaining results from a SOIL analysis. Someone else will have to answer that question. 


      You can try to open Mechanical APDL and open the results file in that application.  I don't use that application so I can't help you with that either.  I recommend performing a simple model in APDL that solves without error to get used to the user interface before you attempt to look at this SOIL model.

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